One of the things I hate the most about EVE is the non-spaceship drama. I usually avoid it like the plague, but sometimes it can be hard when there’s an extreme lack of anything else going on to write about.
I admit, I greatly regret writing my last post regarding the E1 incident. Not because I regret having the opinions that I do, but because it predictably left a sour taste in my mouth. Before I knew it, people were disagreeing with opinions that I didn’t even know I had expressed, and labeling me for ideas I didn’t know that I had.
Sometimes, it’s better to stay out of things entirely, and this is a case I really wish I had.
It has gotten me to pondering a few things though.
In EVE, we’re all about the sandbox. And, a lot of people seem proud of the fact that EVE’s variety of sandbox includes facilitating, and even encouraging players to knock down each other’s sand castles.
I know that for me, if someone were to knock down my sand castle enough times, I’d simply stop building more. And lately, with the focus of game mechanics seeming to often focus on destruction and new ways to take or burn down other people’s stuff, I often wonder if we aren’t going to eventually reach a situation where we have nothing left to destroy.
It’s an odd thing to wonder I guess, and I haven’t decided whether I actually think we run that risk or not.
I also wonder if we don’t use the words “emergent gameplay” and “sandbox” too much. It seems like an entire discussion about whether something is really good for the game or not is entirely squelched as soon as someone pipes up with “it’s doesn’t matter. It’s a sandbox so it needs to be allowed.”
I wonder what people would do if I claimed that stabbed, tech 1 frigate plex farming was emergent gameplay and part of the sandbox. (giggle)
And thirdly, I wonder if we haven’t digressed as a community a bit. I mean, this last blowup was pretty bad. Are we so bored of internet spaceships that this is what we need to entertain ourselves in EVE now? A massive scandal that ends in the entire community splitting hairs and dissecting each others words and throwing around insults and blame? And then, when we can go no further with that, arguing about the importance of the arguments? And then arguing over the motives of the people who are trying to argue about the validity of the arguments. And then arguing about what we should or should not be arguing about? And then arguing over what the original or ‘main’ argument was supposed to be about? (lol!)
It makes my head hurt.
But then again, this is EVE, right? The social game that is player driven.
I guess most of us know deep down that it was never really meant to be about the spaceships to begin with.
"I wonder what people would do if I claimed that stabbed, tech 1 frigate plex farming was emergent gameplay and part of the sandbox. (giggle) "
ReplyDeleteIt is emergent gameplay and part of the sandbox, that's a great example of how all emergent gameplay isn't a net positive for the game.
Really it is all about the spaceships! I get angry about what I see out of the observation deck but really I'm content to meander around picking up on this or that. Don't let one thing grind you down forever, change tack and get back out there. Do something odd. Fly Glorious.
ReplyDeleteBugger. I actually agreed with something Susan Black said. That's it. I'll have to quit EvE now :)
ReplyDeleteYour opinions in the prior post were 100% correct, as is the statement that a stabbed plex farmer is part of emergent gameplay. There is no contradiction. CCP gives us tools. We use those tools within the framework of the EULA and TOS to build our castles.
ReplyDeleteYou said: "A massive scandal that ends in the entire community splitting hairs and dissecting each others words and throwing around insults and blame? And then, when we can go no further with that, arguing about the importance of the arguments? And then arguing over the motives of the people who are trying to argue about the validity of the arguments. And then arguing about what we should or should not be arguing about? And then arguing over what the original or ‘main’ argument was supposed to be about?"
This is the essence of the sandbox. It's what happens in real life. Actions are taken. They cannot be "un-taken" (or "revoked" if you want to kill the symmetry.) Then all that is left is to talk about it. Like when Clinton let Ricky Ray Rector die by lethal injection administered by the state. Can't take it back now, but we can talk about it, and agree or disagree.
First of all you shouldn't feel bad for expressing your opinion. Others will agree and disagree and generally do what they want, but most will appreciate a well thought out opinion. I know I do.
ReplyDeletePersonally I stayed out of this one completely because it smelled bad from the beginning. I don't agree with making the victim's name public, I think that was a horrible disservice. I believe a member of the CSM should know better and be more intelligent about he handles such things. But that is my personal opinion. And I'm already saying more in this comment than I intended.
In EVE creation still outweighs destruction.
ReplyDeleteFaceless enemies are not human but merely targets. Once you talke to someone they become human. (Not talking about E1 scams here but talking to your victim or killer after a combat or gank.)
I rolled my first FW alt and plan to fly around stabbed and cloaked until the character can actually sit in a combat ship and has paid for itself. Half the reason to do so is the constant rage against farmers by pvp-ers like Drackarn :) I'll just have to remember to stay clear of the FW alt he uses to point farmers.
I missed this scandal, I suppose. Part of being too busy with RL (Law School). That being said, I usually enjoy a good argument with reasoned opinions being stated and then discussed and weighed for their merits. Somehow, I suspect that is not what you meant by "arguments." I'd say just let it roll off of you. The Eve community, for all its many great members, contains a vocal and tenacious collection of people who are either trolls or just outright dicks. I don't think it's the majority, but it's certainly the most noticeable cohort. Remember: If people aren't sending you death threats, you're doing it wrong.
ReplyDelete"In EVE, we’re all about the sandbox." ~In EVE~ being the operative phrase and that is why I didn't agree with your previous post. Some people may forget where the confines of the box are and decide to take the sand into RL.They might DDOS your comms server, steal a flag from a property they have no right to enter or post a recording of another player being humiliated for no in game advantage whatsoever. At those points, it no longer becomes a game about internet spaceships and "for the lulz" just doesn't cut it tbh.
ReplyDeleteYes, the "because it is a sandox" gets thrown around far too much imho. I often feel that the user of this phrase employs it purely to add percieved weight to their particular point of view. In some respects, I'm reminded of the "God wills it!" scene in the film Kingdom of Heaven ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez6wfJWVCeI ).
I completely agree that content shouldn't be all about destruction - a healthy balance with construction is needed. Do you think the EVE economy is an effective moderator for the destruction/construction equilibrium? Might the other side of the Rubicon offer more room in which sandcastles can be constructed without immediately being kicked down? I guess we'll have a clearer picture on the latter question after Fanfest ;-)
As always, Susan, you make sense. This has been an ugly chapter, and only the trolls and dicks (as another commenter accurately portrayed them) are interested in propelling this dead-horse topic.
ReplyDeleteI would say that the latest blowup we had actually wasn't that big of an event, BUT it just happened to occur in a news-lull period where bloggers/podcasters/forum folk had not a lot else to talk about so it became big news. And, like all other forms of media, when "everyone you know" is talking about something and arguing it becomes a much bigger issue subjectively then it is to most of the community.
ReplyDelete